Week in Review: 10/5 - 10/11

The Twins are stupid to trade Young. He had a ton of bad luck, the whole team did, with hitting homers earlier in the season, and he actually showed significant improvement with patience and stole more bases. They also had him hopelessly mis-cast in LF. With an arm like that, he should be in RF.

I agree that Young was miscast in left field. I understand the mentality at the beginning of the year; Don't move Michael Cuddyer from his comfort zone, and he knows how to play the baggie in right field at the Metrodome.

Once Cuddyer was injured though, Denard Span should have been in left field. His range would be far more beneficial there, with Delmon and his arm in right.

Either way, I just can't see how a team could give up on a talent like that so early on. It shocked me when Tampa Bay did it, but they had clubhouse issues there it seems like. I'll be surprised if Young doesn't turn into a potential 30/20 candidate with power to all fields eventually and an unbelievable arm in the outfield.

I don't see the logic in trading him at all.

Young has had two disappointing seasons, not one. He simply hasn't hit for power in the majors or shown plate discipline, and he has little defensive value. He had a 105 isolated slugging percentage this year. I don't care where he was drafted. If he develops well at this point, it's much more likely to be into a Jose Guillen type career than a real star.

How does this trade for Milwaukee and San Francisco sound. The offensively starved SFG trade raw potential power pitcher Jonathan Sanchez (SP 25yrs), a solid first base prospect with lofty expectations in John Bowker (1B 24yrs) and Pablo Sandoval, a rare combination of well-rounded offense and defense capabilities at catcher (C 21yrs) to the Brewers for the second best first basemen in the game with Bonds-esque power Prince Fielder (1B 24 yrs), a gritty veteran outfielder who can take Fred Lewis under his wing and teach him tremendous amounts in Gabe Kapler (OF 32yrs) and a proven veteran reliever coming off a bad stretch in Derrick Turnbow (RP 31yrs). Possibly a few minor league prospects thrown in on Milwaukee's behalf as well.

I agree-- do NOT trade Delmon Young. That would be utterly stupid to trade a guy like Young after 2 years of above par baseball-- and hey, 3rd times a charm right? Young is the future of the Twins-- righty power bat who will be a 30 homer guy one day. I mean, he adjusted to a whole new position in a whole new atmosphere, give the guy some time!

I dunno if I like the Redmond option or not-- why not bring up Morales as our back up catcher instead? In 3 major league AB's he got 3 hits! You think he's ready?

Someone mentioned Jake Peavy for the Twins... I seriously doubt that will happen, but, I'm sure a lot of Twins fans would be willing to give up Perkins or Blackburn plus prospects for 5 years of Jake Peavy!

I agree-- do NOT trade Delmon Young. That would be utterly stupid to trade a guy like Young after 2 years of above par baseball-- and hey, 3rd times a charm right? Young is the future of the Twins-- righty power bat who will be a 30 homer guy one day. I mean, he adjusted to a whole new position in a whole new atmosphere, give the guy some time!

I dunno if I like the Redmond option or not-- why not bring up Morales as our back up catcher instead? In 3 major league AB's he got 3 hits! You think he's ready?

Someone mentioned Jake Peavy for the Twins... I seriously doubt that will happen, but, I'm sure a lot of Twins fans would be willing to give up Perkins or Blackburn plus prospects for 5 years of Jake Peavy!

Woah... sorry for the double post!

Woah... sorry for the double post!

Interesting idea, maybe Delmon comes to Atlanta for Francouer and someone along the lines of Johnson, Escobar, or Prado. It would let both Young and Frankie, who both have a huge upside that hasn't shown up get a new start and it would give Minnesota a reliable infielder to improve their weak infield.

I haven't heard anything about Jake Peavy and the Twins, but if that were even going to be considered, it would take more than Perkins and prospects. You'd be looking more along the lines of Glen Perkins, Denard Span, Luke Hughes, Rob Delaney, and additional prospects. Peavy's bounty will be enormous given his talent and affordability. Besides, I don't think additional starting pitching is the Twins' need, not that Peavy wouldn't improve ANY rotation he was added to.

As for Sanchez/Sandoval/Bowker, that seems like a lot for the Giants to surrender when factoring in Prince's big payday, and adding Turnbow's salary.

Delmon Young is still just barely 23 years old, and improved his walk rate from 2007 to 2008, drawing 9 more walks in 10 less games (70 less ABs). I think telling young hitters to try to pull the ball for power is a terrible thing to do, and I still believe that Young's power will develop as he continues to mature. Whether he is in Minnesota or somewhere else in a few years, I think that team will find themselves with one of the best all-around offensive players in the league.

Young was traded from Tampa for not hustling, being suspended twice for not running down 1st base, as well as issues in the clubhouse. Tampa had that same problem with Elijah Dukes (got rid of also) and 2001 1st round pick Dewon Brazelton.

Young has loads of talent and Gardenhire is an excellent manger. If the Twins can corral this and put it together, he has all the tools to be a superstar player, unfortunately in Tampa, they just grew tired of some of his antics.

Insomniac,

The idea behind trading Young is that the Twins have him, Denard Span, Carlos Gomez, Jason Kubel, and Michael Cuddyer creating an outfield logjam. They wouldn't take on another outfielder most likely.

Besides, I think most would view Delmon Young as far more valuable than Franceour. The Twins are looking for right-handed power in the infield, and while Yunel Escobar is a good player, he won't exactly fill that need.

The Braves need an outfielder, but they don't seem like a good matchup for the Twins and Delmon Young.

Well anyone who thinks we're letting go of Span is stupid!

I mean, maybe. It would free up some space in our crowded OF and let Cuddyer return to right.

If we were to give up Perkins and Cuddyer to free up cap space I would say all systems go!

When you look at it, the Padres OF looks weak asides from Giles and Headley's good production. If we were to give them Cuddyer, then it would give them an extra power dimension at Petco. I mean he IS better than Jerry Hairston overall... right?

How about Young or Cuddyer for Escobar and a reliever/prospect or two?

We need an extra INF and they need OF help and OF power. That's a trade both clubs would have to heavily consider!

Twinsfan,

Michael Cuddyer is owed $20MM over the next two seasons, hasn't shown he can stay healthy, and only has one season of actual production under his belt. That season came when he batted between Joe Mauer (batting title) and Justin Morneau (MVP) in 2006. He's got negative trade value. If the Braves gave Escobar and a prospect for Cuddyer that would be a horrific trade for them most likely.

The Padres don't have Jerry Hairston, they have Scott Hairston, and based on last season, he looks to be every bit as productive as Michael Cuddyer.

I thought the Twins' did a great job locking up Morneau this offseason, but cringed at the Cuddyer deal. It's already handcuffing them it looks like, as they'll be forced to move a better outfielder (Young, Span, Kubel) or have a $10MM/year bench player in Cuddyer.

Yeah the thing with Cuddyer is he is expensive and not valuable.

And thinking about it now, with all that cash, the Braves wouldn't give up their starting SS for Young when they could easily bring home Dunn or Burrell.

Sorry about the mixup, Jerry Hairston is on the Reds, but the thing with Scott Hairston is that he needs baserunners when he comes up! 17 homers and only 31 RBI is showing something about who is hitting in front of him.

The only thing I know is one of our guys is gonna have to go, unless they plan to use Kubel/Cuddyer in a corner OF/DH platoon role.

If we trade Escobar for outfield help we then need to get a shortstop, so it doesn't really make sense.

Plenty of power bats in free agency and available fairly cheaply in trades like Ordonez to make trading for Cuddyer or Young highly unlikely.

I would love to trade KJ and Lillibridge to the twins for Delmon.....The twins would get some solid young infield pieces and the braves would get a young left field bat with great upside.....
However, I see three big reasons why this is probably not going to happen....

1.On the twins side, what sense does it make to trade delmon for some more infielders who are similar to what they already have in place. Kelly johnson is basically Alexi Casilla with power, and Brent Lillibridge is basically Brandon Harris with speed. If he twins are going to trade delmon, I agree they are going to have get what they wanted in delmon himself to begin with, a young righthanded run producer to balance out the lineup, except this time one that plays the infield.

2. While the braves do have the depth of young middle infielders to take on the loss of KJ and Lillibridge, trading those two for Delmon is not really an economically effective mood because we really are trading a surplus for a surplus. What I mean is that right now, we have Yunel, Omar, Prado, KJ, and lillibridge to feel 3 positions(mainly SS and 2b, but you have to include 3b since CHIP is hurt alot.) While I do agree we should use 1 or 2 pieces from this surplus in a trade, it really does not make sense to the braves to trade a prospective player or two for another yet to develop prospective player, in this case delmon. He would just be another young OF who needs to develop, and we already have one of those in francouer. Furthermore, the OF is where the bulk of quality in terms of position player prospects resides, in the form of Schafer, Gorkys, Heyward, Johnson, B. Jones, and probably Flowers.

3. The braves need to be smart witht their trades and get established success. As mentioned in point two, it really is not in the braves best interest to trade for delmon when we already have Frenchy, a player of similar skill set (I think Frenchy of 2006 and 7 is more of what you will get). The braves need to trade for a young established pitcher who can anchor our staff into the near future and get an established veteran middle of the order bat to solidify our lineup. I would rather get the bat in FA in Burrell, Dunn, or Rivera, and the pitcher in a trade, in Peavy, Cain, Snell or so on.

So, as much as I would be excited to get Young from the twins.....It is not the most effecive trade for the twins or braves to make. The braves could get more needed and established pieces by using their young MI, and the twins should use young, even though I do not think they should trade him at all, to get the young, right handed run producer at 3b.

My suggestion.....If the pads want to truly rebuild, a nice trade for both teams would be

Delmon Young
for
Kevin Kouzmanoff and Cla meredith

Two needs are filled for the twins, and the pads have their middle of the order bat to pair with A Gonzo and headley in the future.

Omar Infante and Martin Prado are nothing more than utility infielders who are valuable to the Braves as they're needed to backup Chipper for 30 games. They aren't everyday players.

Lillibridge can't hit sliders.

We don't have a surplus of middle infielders, we have just enough.

"Well anyone who thinks we're letting go of Span is stupid!"

As good as Span was this year, he doesn't carry half the talent that Young does.

That is true, the physical factor belongs to Young-- strong, good arm, good power.

But the smarts go to Span, he was probably our 2nd half MVP and along with Mr. Mauer, he was probably the smartest and most plate-smart of anyone on our team.

I agree with you nick in a sense that just as much of a possibility it is that infante and'or prado could be at least decent everyday options at second if we were to trade KJ, it is just as much a possibility that they could be flukes.

With that being said, the year Prado/Infante had this year compared to the talent they have vs. KJ mirrors AA's point about Span and Delmon. Yes Span, Prado, and Infante had great years in terms of performing above and beyond what was expected of them, but that is each player's talent level is to be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to expecting them to better a better replacement for the talent level of a KJ or Delmon being traded away.

Delmon Young could be available this offseason. Personally, I think trading a 23-year-old outfielder with that kind of upside would be a colossal mistake.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It worked for the Rays. Seriously, why immediately call this a mistake, I think that is odd, since Young did already bring in a nice haul that is contributing to a possible championship pennant.

86 WS,

Giants want to get younger...trading 3 kids for 1 kid and 2 30+ would be incredibly stupid!!!!

Fielder/Hardy/Gamel should be the only players the Giants look at.

Fielder to the Giants for Matt Cain makes a bunch of sense for both teams. San Francisco has a raft of young pitchers, but no bats. Milwaukee has a bunch of 1B/OF types, but is thin on pitching.

If the Giants won't do it straight up, the deal could be expanded to include either Hardy or Weeks, both of whom are expendable and would be a huge boost to the Giants' lineup. The Giants could send back a centerfielder - Fred Lewis would be a nice fit as Milwaukee's leadoff hitter, and they could dump Mike Cameron's $10M option (minus the $750K buyout) if they have an alternative, using the money saved to find another starting pitcher or some bullpen help.

"That is true, the physical factor belongs to Young-- strong, good arm, good power.

But the smarts go to Span, he was probably our 2nd half MVP and along with Mr. Mauer, he was probably the smartest and most plate-smart of anyone on our team."

I agree that Span was huge for the Twins, but that doesn't mean he is more valuable than Young. He is even older than Young, without possessing the obvious physical gifts.

"It worked for the Rays. Seriously, why immediately call this a mistake, I think that is odd, since Young did already bring in a nice haul that is contributing to a possible championship pennant."

The Rays got an MLB ready Number 2-3 caliber pitcher for Young, and the jury really still is out on the deal.

The jury is still out, but Tampa has clearly gotten the better of that trade thus far.

If you get a player you really like in return, why not pull the trigger?

You trade Young if, and ONLY if, you're getting something really nice in return. Like, for example, in a package or standalone for a young 3B/SS (or prospect at one of those positions).

Young has great potential, but he shouldn't be "untouchable." He should be tradeable with the right offer.

"How about Young or Cuddyer for Escobar and a reliever/prospect or two? "

I assume you're talking about Yunel Escobar?

Escobar has proven himself in the bigs and is very good at a premium position (SS). If he is traded, it should ONLY be if it brings back an MLB higher level SP(even if Escobar is packaged with someone else), and even then, I'd hesitate. And, Braves shouldn't be trading relievers anyway. Their pen is somewhat thin. Moylan/Soriano are big "ifs", and Gonzalez is their only "proven" reliever. Hopefully Acosta rebounds for the Braves pen, but who knows? No real relief "prospects", although one might see Phil Stockman again in the bigs.

Why would you trade Young that would be hella dumb. Just look down like 2 years from now and the Twins will have the best line up in the majors unless they trade or free agents take their people.

C- Joe Mauer,25, He will be MVP sometime in his career and will be one of the best at the position for a long time.

1B- Justin Morneau,27, Already an MVP and probably win it again this year.

CF- Carlos Gomez,22, Even though he struggled this year with the bat, he will be one of the best lead off guys in the game at some point.
RF- Denard Span,24, Better bat then Gomez this year but pretty much the sam as him those 2 will be a great one-two punch with Gomez.

LF- Delmon Young,23, Will become a elite hitter with Mauer and Morneau. And will make will show it would be dumb to trade him.

SP- Francisco Liriano,25, Will become one of the most dominant pitchers again and will win the Cy Young.

So pretty much you guys needs are SS, 3B and probably some more SP. Yeah Twins will be good.

I think the Cubs should trade for Cuddyer he is a 90 + RBI guy with some pop. Even though he was injury plagued this year I would still trade for him.
Casey McGehee and 2 others should get it done.

I can't believe there are people out there that still believe that Fielder is anywhere near the value of Matt Cain. That is amazing when you consider the productivity and the upside of Cain, at his ridiculously low price vs. Fielder and his escalating arbitration salary and his replaceable production at 1B.

Fielder is worth about 3 wins over the course of the season, where Cain is worth about 4.5, will cost about 1/3 less, and has an unreached ceiling. We know what Fielder can do, and although impressive, most GM's in baseball would take Cain consistency and ceiling over Fielder in a heartbeat.

Let me just bring up one thing ...WE F'IN GAVE UP DAVID ORTIZ BECAUSE WE THOUGHT HE DIDN'T HAVE TGE POWER POTENTIAL THAT WE THOUGHT HE WOULD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......................DON'T TRADE DELMON YOUNG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. Sure, he hasn't shown the power potential that we all thought he had, but he was still able to hit for average. I never thought he would become a 40 home run guy, I thought he was more of a 20-25 home run guy and I THOUGHT everyone else knew that too!!! He has had two decent years as a starter in the majors so far. His day will come, the guy is still extremely young, GIVE HIM A BREAK!! I still see more potential in Young than I did with Michael Cuddyer when he first came up. Even if we were going to trade Delmon Young, we should AT LEAST get somebody who's worth as much as Young. HELL, we should have gotten Jose Reyes or David Wright for Santana as opposed to four mid-level prospects because GETTING QUALITY MEANS GIVING UP QUALITY!!! As an alternative to get a thirdbaseman or shortstop, I suggest we trade Jason Kubel, Glen Perkins plus two top prospects such as Brian Duensing and David Winfree for Adrian Beltre or Edwin Encarnacion. This way we would keep our outfield the way it is plus the DH spot would be open to either Cuddyer or Young. Then we could sign a free agent shortstop such as Orlando Cabrera, but if we can't, we have Punto and Harris split time at short, big deal.

Another possible trade I would consider would be Cuddyer, Perkins, and two prospects to the Marlins for Jorge Cantu and Kevin Gregg.

BLEEDINGCUBBIEBLUE, et all- You trade Young ONLY if someone offers something really nice for him and it DIRECTLY fills a NEED for the Twins (whether it be down on the farm or in the bigs). You can't blanket every Young trade as "stupid".

However, I'd much rather trade Cuddyer over Young; Young has monster potential.

And, no way I do Fielder for Cain straight up. There has to be more added in on the Brewers' part. Cain is worth much more than Fielder.

Well Minnesota just outright kicked out Ortiz. No one is doubting Young will be a quality player for years to come. But cheap young players can bring in bounties much higher than their value. If the twins get a offer they feel could help their team they should go for it.

Steve Adams,
Gomez had a sub-.300 obp and nearly 150 k's as a "contact hitter". He's not what I'd call completely mlb ready. Span had an outstanding year but kids like Charles Thomas have done the same thing in the past. I think relying on those two who's entire production relies on getting on base for others to knock in is kind of questionable.

Frankie has lost the weight he put on and in the past has been a reliable hitter with improving discipline, an amazing health record, and outstanding defense. I know he dosen't have the ceiling that Young has but I think a lot of people overlook his quality as a player.

With that said, I'm sure a team like Kansas or Florida would be a more reasonable fit but I was tossing out the idea.

Dcaff,
David Ortiz and Delmon Young are not at all analogous. Ortiz posted strong OBP's and passable slugging percentage's in almost every year as a Twin at the major league level, even though they jerked him between the majors and minors. In his last year with the Twins, he slugged 500 in over 400 at bats. Young has never hit nearly that well at the big league level, despite being given a full-time job for two years, unless you count his 30 game cup of coffee in 2006. His OPS+ the last two years have been 91 and 100, respectively. In Ortiz, the Twins traded a guy who had actually hit at the major league level. Trading Young would be different.

How do you feel about the phillies possible acquiring young for like a jason donald and a couple more prospects or are twins looking for more major league ready....young hitting in the phillies park could only help and that would help solve the phils left field vacancy if burrell leaves

Young to the Phillies does seem like a good fit.

I mean the Phils and Twinkees would be able to make out a good trade.

"Fielder is worth about 3 wins over the course of the season, where Cain is worth about 4.5, will cost about 1/3 less, and has an unreached ceiling. We know what Fielder can do, and although impressive, most GM's in baseball would take Cain consistency and ceiling over Fielder in a heartbeat."

You have to look at the two organizations. Fielder is exactly what the Giants don't have - a bona fide #3/#4 hitter. With Lincecum and Sanchez already in the majors and severak others (Bumgarner, Alderson, Sosa) on the way, they have a ton of young pitchers in the system. I agree that a one-for-one swap is unlikely, but if you add in another player like Hardy or Weeks, the two infield upgrades should offset the loss of Cain, especially with replacement starting pitchers waiting in the wings.

I'd love to see Delmon Young in a Phils uniform, but the Twins won't do that unless there are multiple top prospects in the deal - Carrasco and Marson would have to go to Minnesota in the deal, and the Phils won't move either one.

"David Ortiz and Delmon Young are not at all analogous. Ortiz posted strong OBP's and passable slugging percentage's in almost every year as a Twin at the major league level, even though they jerked him between the majors and minors. In his last year with the Twins, he slugged 500 in over 400 at bats. Young has never hit nearly that well at the big league level, despite being given a full-time job for two years, unless you count his 30 game cup of coffee in 2006. His OPS+ the last two years have been 91 and 100, respectively. In Ortiz, the Twins traded a guy who had actually hit at the major league level. Trading Young would be different."

In his last two years with the Twins, Ortiz had OBPs of .324 and .339 with AVGs of .234 and .272. Meanwhile he was 25 and 26 years old. Young, at 21 and 22, had OBPs of .316 and .336 and AVGs of .288 and .290. Ortiz also never had Young's speed or defensive gifts. The fact that Young can play the field and saves approximately 10 runs a year with his arm alone also adds significant value that Ortiz, a DH who is a defensive liability when he does play, simply doesn't have.

Young has plus speed? An arm that saves 10 runs per year? And you're using batting average as a valuable stat?

I'm not sure why you quoted my post in an attempt to disagree with me, when in the end, you agreed my most obvious point that 1:! for Fielder in Cain is uneven.

I quoted you because talent-for-talent, you didn't think a deal centered on those two players was anywhere close. I suggested in my earlier post that a second good MLB-ready infielder (Hardy or Weeks) might be needed to sweeten the deal.

Looking at Cain's contract, though - signed through 2011 for a maximum (if he reaches incentive targets) of $16M, with an out for the Giants in 2011 if Cain blows out his arm - San Francisco would have to be clinically insane to move him. Wow.

I see Zach Greinke as a better fit for the Phillies than Delmon Young. The Royals need a shortstop, outfielder and catcher. How about Jason Donald, Greg Golson, Chris Coste and Travis D'Arnaud?

A recent Baseball America interview mentioned Donald, Golson and D'Arnaud as possible top 100 prospects. Golson and Donald could be the Royals' opening day starters at CF and SS. Until D'Arnaud is ready, Coste would be KC's short-term solution at catcher, and they could use his bat at DH and 1st base. Travis D'Arnaud might be a better all-around prospect than Lou Marson,(better defense, more power) but needs a couple years to develop.

The Royals like speedy, toolsy outfielders and don't seem to emphasize emphasize OBP as much as other teams, so they might like Greg Golson.

There's no way the Phillies trade Lou Marson this off-season- forget it.

and nobody in phillie should want them to trade lou marson hes gonna be a stud. If the phillies were gonna trade him at all it woulda been when they could have got manny and they wouldnt do it then so they certainly wouldnt do it in the off-season and im glad they wont

Houston really needs pitching but who would they trade to get Jake Peavy. there farm system consists of maybe three good prospects i said good not great.