Post-Winter Meetings Rumors On Manny Machado, Bryce Harper
Manny Machado will head to Philadelphia for an in-person visit with the Phillies next week, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today, and George A. King III of the New York Post suggests that a similar visit to Yankee Stadium could be lined up for next week as well. The Yankees and Phillies are two of the reported four teams set to be aligning visits with the polarizing Machado, along with the White Sox and the ever-popular “mystery team.” For the Phillies, the acquisition of Jean Segura makes Machado a likelier fit at third base despite the infielder’s clear preference to play shortstop. Machado’s former third base coach in Baltimore, Bobby Dickerson, tells Scott Lauber of the Philadelphia Inquirer that he believes Machado would move to third base if an offer to do so was the clear best offer he received in free agency. Perhaps more interestingly, Dickerson talks with Lauber about Machado’s personality, his preternatural defensive aptitude at third base and, in reference to Machado’s October villainy, his belief that Machado “is fine with being the bad boy.”
With the Winter Meetings now in the rear-view mirror, here’s a bit more on Machado and the market’s other top free agent…
- White Sox GM Rick Hahn somewhat indirectly acknowledged his interest in both Machado and Bryce Harper on Thursday, as Bruce Levine writes for 670 The Score FM. “We are excited to be discussing impactful moves for the long term,” said Hahn of his team’s reported interest in the market’s top two free agents. “It’s good to have a seat at the table for some long impactful moves. This work does not mean anything is going to come together. … Even if we are able to convert on something big, there is a lot of work to do behind it to get us where we want to be (as an organization).” Levine suggests that an opt-out provision after three or four years would be a “significant draw” for Harper, though that much has been more or less expected for some time. Top free agents have increasingly gravitated toward the inclusion of such contracts, and several recent free-agent signings have included multiple opportunities to re-enter free agency (e.g. Jason Heyward, J.D. Martinez).
- Also via Nightengale, agent Scott Boras implied in characteristically colorful fashion that he’s not concerned about early indications that some potential suitors (e.g. Yankees, Cardinals) have limited interest or trepidation when it comes to a legitimate pursuit of Harper. “When the nurse walks in the room with the thermometer, the issue is not what the thermometer says that day,” said Boras. “The issue is what’s the health of the patient when they’re ready to leave the hospital.” The Phillies and White Sox both remain in the mix on Harper, per the report, and Nightengale speculatively suggests that the Dodgers, who are reportedly trying to move Matt Kemp and Yasiel Puig, shouldn’t be ruled out. Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM, though, tweets that the Dodgers aren’t interested in pushing talks to 10 years on Harper. Nor, for that matter, are the Angels or Giants, each of whom has been previously mentioned as a potential dark horse.
- ESPN’s Buster Olney writes that executives from other clubs and agents throughout the industry find it increasingly possible that the Phillies, long the presumptive favorite to sign one of Harper or Machado, could instead come away with neither in hand. Olney, too, suggests that the Dodgers‘ efforts to move Kemp, Puig and other notable salaries could eventually result in the capacity to submit a winning offer to Harper. While there’s doubt that the Dodgers would offer the longest-term contract, Olney suggests perhaps a front-loaded deal with a substantial annual value from a team that has appeared in consecutive World Series would prove enticing. Meanwhile, the Yankees still present a viable threat to the Phillies for Machado as they look to close ground on the World Champion Red Sox.
- There’s no indication that anything has changed for the Cubs, per Patrick Mooney of The Athletic (subscription required), who writes that the team is “close to maxing out” its baseball operations budget for the 2019 season. Rather than acknowledge a need for any sort of augmentation to the roster, manager Joe Maddon suggested that the greater issue for the Cubs is to extract better performance from the talent already in house. Along those same lines, GM Jed Hoyer spoke of the promising signs he’s seen in Kris Bryant as he looks to rehab from 2018 shoulder woes.
Pitching Notes: Nats, Jays, White Sox, Athletics
The Nationals already seemed like a possible ongoing pursuer of starting pitching before trading away Tanner Roark; now, it’s all but inevitable that the club will add another new arm. Veteran free agents Wade Miley and Anibal Sanchez are both on the Nats’ radar, per Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (Twitter links), though it’s not clear whether either is particularly likely to land in D.C. Both hurlers turned in excellent results in 2018 after overcoming injuries, with the latter relying on his ability to induce groundballs and the latter finally overcoming his home run woes. Sustainability remains a question, of course, as each has had his share of struggles in seasons prior.
- Whether the Nats will also be exploring higher-end pitching options isn’t yet fully clear, but president of baseball operations Mike Rizzo did say today that the club is performing “due diligence” on Japanese hurler Yusei Kikuchi, as Pete Kerzel of MASNsports.com tweets. Given the wide interest that the 27-year-old has drawn to this point, it seems safe to assume the Nationals are at least open to making another significant rotation addition this winter.
- It’s still far too soon to know how the market will develop for Kikuchi, but we keep hearing of teams that wish to be involved to some degree. The Blue Jays intend to sit down with the 27-year-old lefty, per Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca (via Twitter), adding another organization. Though the Toronto club in no way profiles as a 2019 contender — most of the talk has surrounded its possible marketing of its own pitching — it surely has designs on a fairly quick bounce back and may view Kikuchi as a nice target to provide some good innings both now and in the future.
- White Sox GM Rick Hahn says he’s not likely to add a significant starter via free agency (via James Fegan of The Athletic, on Twitter), but that evidently won’t stop him from checking in at the top of the market for relievers. The Chicago organization has “shown interest” in veteran hurler Adam Ottavino, MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reports on Twitter. It’ll likely cost a pretty penny to reel in the talented right-hander, who is also a clear target for more obvious contenders, though perhaps the White Sox will plan to offer him and others a chance to work as the closer.
- It seems the Athletics are contemplating another bullpen buildout after succeeding with that strategy in 2018. Rosenthal tweets that the organization is interested in a reunion with Jeurys Familia, who certainly also ought to draw quite a few hits from other teams, particularly since he only just turned 29. While the rotation is an obvious need in Oakland, Rosenthal says it’s one that’s likelier to be met at a later point in the offseason — with “inexpensive” arms. It sounds as if the A’s won’t be driving the market on any of their top free agent targets. The search for diamonds in the rough paid out handsomely last winter, but hitting it rich again will surely be a challenge.
White Sox Notes: Harper/Machado, Rotation, Catcher
The White Sox are unfazed in their pursuit of both Bryce Harper and Manny Machado, but the Southsiders don’t view themselves as the favorite for either, per USA Today’s Bob Nightengale (via Twitter). The White Sox plan to meet with both Harper and Machado during these winter meetings. In their favor, Chicago’s financial ledger is clear of future obligations (save for Tim Anderson‘s deal, which is guaranteed through 2022) as they approach a window to compete in the AL Central after 2019. Still, a Harper signing would be uncharacteristically rich for White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, writes the Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal (subscription link). There are examples of the typically-prudent Reinsdorf opening his wallet, however, most notably the signings of Albert Belle (for $55MM in 1996 )and Jose Abreu (for $68MM in 2013). Clearly, those dollar amounts pale in comparison to what either Harper or Machado will demand, but both were splashy acquisitions in their time that demanded the league’s attention in their respective winters. More rumblings on the Southsiders plans for the rest of the offseason…
- GM Rick Hahn checked one box off his offseason to-do list with yesterday’s acquisition of starter Ivan Nova. While it’s not a landscape-shifting move by any means, it’s an important one for the White Sox, who have Nova earmarked for the innings originally allocated to top prospect Michael Kopech, per James Fegan of the Athletic (subscription link). Nova should provide reliable, if unspectacular rotation innings, much in the mold of James Shields, though Nova isn’t quite the innings-eater that Shields is (Nova’s career high in innings is 187 in 2017). Nova, with Scott Boras client Carlos Rodon, Reynaldo Lopez and Lucas Giolito, should make up the front four in the Sox 2019 rotation, with the fifth spot an open competition between Manny Banuelos, Dylan Covey, Jordan Stephens and perhaps a couple non-roster invitees. Hahn remains on the lookout for further rotation help, but with at least one more rebuilding season ahead, the White Sox have the luxury of patience as they continue to audition young arms for what, they hope, could be an earnestly-competitive roster by 2020.
- Hahn is also on the lookout for a short-term catching option to add to the 2019 mix after dealing Omar Narvaez to Seattle. Their interest in Yasmani Grandal must be grouped, at present, with Machado and Harper as guys the Sox are kicking the tires on, but unlikely to lock down. They have a pair of catching prospects in Zack Collins and Seby Zavala, but there’s no reason to rush either one when one-year stopgaps like Martin Maldonado or James McCann are available, whom the Sox could happily pair with Wellington Castillo for the time being. Collins and Zavala don’t preclude a Grandal acquisition, as the latter would take some pressure of the pair of prospects, though it’s reasonable to assume Grandal’s market could see an influx of suitors when the J.T. Realmuto sweepstakes reaches a conclusion.
Latest On J.A. Happ, Lance Lynn
7:41pm: Both Happ and former teammate Lance Lynn are “engaged with” the Astros, Yankees, Reds, Rangers and Blue Jays, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com tweets. Happ’s also continuing to draw the attention of the Phillies, while Lynn has received interest from the White Sox, according to Feinsand.
9:53am: It has seemed for the past few days that veteran lefty J.A. Happ could be the next domino to fall in the starting pitching market, and there are signs this morning that talks are advancing. Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets that Happ’s market is “heating up,” while Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports reports on Twitter that Happ is sitting on multiple two-year offers.
The key question remains whether Happ will secure a guaranteed third season. Passan says that he has yet to receive such an offer. Happ’s representatives have “indicated he’ll sign with the first” team that meets that asking price, however, so it seems possible that something could come together swiftly.
Entering the offseason, MLBTR predicted that Happ would indeed secure that third season in a new deal, riding his solid recent track record to a $48MM guarantee. There certainly seems to be sufficient interest to support such an outcome, though organizations are understandably hesitant to commit to Happ through his age-38 campaign.
To this point, the Phillies, Braves, Yankees, Brewers, Reds, Angels, Astros, Twins, Blue Jays, and White Sox have all been connected to Happ. It’s certainly not impossible to imagine a few other organizations with possible interest as well, though at present it’s tough to gauge the likeliest landing spots.
Position Player Rumors: Brantley, Manny, ChiSox, Phils, NY, Ramos, Tulo, DJ
Continuing to cast a wide net in their search for upgrades, the White Sox “have checked in on” outfielder Michael Brantley, Jayson Stark of The Athletic writes. To this point, the 31-year-old Brantley has spent his entire career as a member of the AL Central rival Indians, though he figures to be too pricey for the Tribe this offseason. Based on his career to date, Brantley would be a substantial upgrade for a Chicago team that received horrid production from its cast of outfielders in 2018.
- Speaking of the White Sox, they’re among the teams that will meet with superstar Manny Machado, per Jon Heyman of Fancred. The Yankees and Phillies, two other unsurprising suitors, will also sit down with the 26-year-old infielder, Heyman adds. In total, Machado will visit four clubs in the coming days, Buster Olney of ESPN hears.
- The Brewers met yesterday with free agent backstop Wilson Ramos and his representatives, MLB.com’s Adam McCalvy reports. Positive vibes seem to have emerged from the sit-down on both sides, which could perhaps spur some momentum toward a match. The Mets met with Ramos today, as Joel Sherman of the New York Post was among those to tweet, though the New York club is seemingly pushing on other fronts first.
- Shortstop Troy Tulowitzki, who surprisingly hit the open market Tuesday when the Blue Jays released him, may be a fit for the Athletics as a second baseman, Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle observes. While Tulowitzki would like to remain at short, he “would be willing to change positions,” his agent, Paul Cohen, told Slusser on Tuesday. He’s also a Bay Area native who, according to Cohen, “would have a lot of interest” in returning there.
- Meantime, the shortstop-needy Tigers will consider Tulo, but signing him is “a low probability,” GM Al Avila said (via Jason Beck of MLB.com). Regardless, the Tigers will add a shortstop prior to next season, Avila declared (via Evan Woodbery of MLive.com).
- The Nationals want an everyday second baseman, and free agent DJ LeMahieu tops their list, Bob Nightengale of USA Today relays. General manager Mike Rizzo revealed last week that the Nationals had contacted LeMahieu’s camp.
- Eight teams are interested in infielder Wilmer Flores, Heyman tweets. The 27-year-old Flores was an above-average offensive player with the Mets in each of the past three seasons, though he did most of his damage against lefties and dealt with injury issues. The Mets non-tendered Flores last month.
- Infielder Carlos Asuaje, whom the Rangers claimed off waivers from the Padres on Monday, is drawing interest from Japan, Heyman reports. It’s unclear, however, whether Texas would enable Asuaje to leave. The Rangers would probably need financial compensation for that to happen, Heyman posits.
Trade Rumors: Santana, Rockies, Reds, Puig, Ender, Rangers, Mets, Nats
Mariners first baseman Carlos Santana is drawing a fair amount of interest just over a week into his tenure with Seattle. The Rays, Indians, Rockies and Marlins have all reached out to the Mariners regarding the 32-year-old switch-hitter, per reports from Corey Brock of The Athletic and colleague Ken Rosenthal. The Indians and Marlins jump out as particularly interesting clubs on the four-team list. Santana played in Cleveland from 2010-17, but the team wasn’t willing to match the Phillies’ three-year, $60MM winning bid for the then-free agent last offseason. He now has $40MM left on that deal, which looks high for an Indians team trying to reduce payroll and get younger this winter. The Marlins certainly aren’t big spenders, meanwhile, and unlike the Indians, they don’t figure to contend during the two remaining years of Santana’s contract. In any case, it seems like a solid bet that the rebuilding, payroll-slashing Mariners will flip Santana, whom they acquired largely to help balance out money in a swap with Philly that was headlined by pricey shortstop Jean Segura.
- Along with Santana, the first base-needy Rockies have interest in the Indians’ Edwin Encarnacion, the White Sox‘s Jose Abreu and the Padres’ Wil Myers, Jim Bowden of The Athletic tweets.
- The Dodgers and Reds have had “multiple” trade discussions involving outfielder Yasiel Puig and other players, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports. Puig’s “in play,” as are other Dodgers outfielders and some of their pitchers, per Rosenthal, who notes that they’d like to clear payroll in order to make room for other potential acquisitions. Interestingly, Rosenthal reports there’s a possibility of the Dodgers taking on Reds righty Homer Bailey‘s $28MM to essentially buy prospects from Cincinnati. Bailey would count $17.5MM against the competitive balance tax, making his money easier to deal with for LA than his salary. But there’s no trade close as of now, Rosenthal adds.
- More on the Reds, who have expressed interest in Braves center fielder Ender Inciarte, according to Mark Sheldon of MLB.com. However, no trade is imminent, and it’s not clear what the Braves asked for in return, Sheldon writes. Inciarte would be an upgrade over ex-Red Billy Hamilton, whom they non-tendered last month. For the Braves, trading Inciarte would free up center field for Ronald Acuna Jr. Although, as a 28-year-old with up to four affordable seasons left on his contract, it would likely take a significant return for Atlanta to move Inciarte.
- The Rangers have engaged in trade discussions with both the Braves and Mets, TR Sullivan of MLB.com tweets. Unsurprisingly, pitching-starved Texas is seeking young and controllable arms, according to Sullivan, who notes that the Braves and Mets are looking for outfield help. However, New York’s seeking a right-handed outfielder, as Sullivan points out, and the Rangers’ most notable outfielders (Shin-Soo Choo, Nomar Mazara and Joey Gallo) are lefty-swingers.
- The Nationals are reportedly willing to trade righty Tanner Roark, whom general manager Mike Rizzo spoke about Tuesday. Rizzo told Mark Zuckerman of MASNsports.com and other reporters that the Nationals will only move Roark if they add another starter first. As of now, there’s nothing imminent, Zuckerman relays.
Mets, White Sox Interested In Yasmani Grandal
The Mets are focused on acquiring catcher J.T. Realmuto, but they seem to have a fallback plan behind the plate if those talks collapse. Free agent Yasmani Grandal has emerged as a “strong possibility” for the Mets, Andy Martino of SNY tweets. Likewise, the White Sox are “looking at” Grandal, per Buster Olney of ESPN.
The 30-year-old Grandal, who has spent his career with the Padres and Dodgers, ranks as the top catcher available in free agency this winter. MLBTR predicts Grandal will receive a four-year, $64MM contract on the heels of yet another strong season in Los Angeles, where the switch-hitter slashed .241/.349/.466 (125 wRC+) and totaled at least 20 home runs (24) for the third straight campaign. He’s also a well-regarded backstop, despite some notable miscues in the playoffs, as Baseball Prospectus ranked him as the premier defensive catcher in the game in 2018.
Any team that signs Grandal would have to give up more than just money, as he rejected a $17.9MM qualifying offer from the Dodgers after the season. In the cases of New York and Chicago, that would mean surrendering their second-highest draft pick and $500K in international signing bonus pool space in 2019. Meanwhile, the Dodgers would receive a compensatory draft pick after Competitive Balance Round B for Grandal’s departure.
For both the Mets and White Sox, it’s easy to see a fit for Grandal. New York’s current catcher trio – Travis d’Arnaud, Kevin Plawecki and Tomas Nido – inspires little confidence, while the White Sox traded 2018 starter Omar Narvaez to the Mariners for reliever Alex Colome earlier this offseason. The White Sox do still have veteran Welington Castillo on hand, though he only has one guaranteed year left on his contract, and general manager Rick Hahn said Tuesday (via James Fegan of The Athletic) that prospects Zack Collins and Seby Zavala aren’t yet ready for the majors. However, Hahn did note that it would make more sense “on paper” for the White Sox to pursue a backup catcher instead of a starter.
White Sox Acquire Ivan Nova
12:58am: Young hurler Yordi Rosario and $500K in international spending capacity are going to the Bucs, Heyman tweets. The deal has now been announced.
12:10pm: The Pirates will receive a “young pitcher” and an unstated amount of international bonus pool availability, per Jon Heyman of Fanced (via Twitter).
10:55am: The White Sox have struck a deal with the Pirates to acquire righty Ivan Nova, according to Ken Rosenthal and Robert Murray of The Athletic (via Twitter). The return is not yet known; the deal will not be finalized until the teams have completed a review of medicals.
At first glance, this is quite an interesting swap owing to its potential downstream ramifications. Moving Nova will clear $8.5MM of payroll for the Bucs, who could put those funds to use in pursuing other players. The White Sox, meanwhile, have continued to make good on their stated intention to bolster their MLB roster in the near term.
Nova, who’ll turn 32 early next year, has been a sturdy rotation piece since landing in Pittsburgh at the 2016 trade deadline. He re-signed with the club in the ensuing winter on a three-year deal that expires at the end of the 2019 campaign.
Over the past two campaigns, Nova carries a 4.16 ERA with 6.3 K/9 and 1.8 BB/9 over 348 frames. He’s not generating as many grounders as he once did, but still has drawn worm burners on over 45% of the balls put in play against him. Meanwhile, Nova has been hurt by the long ball, allowing more than 1.4 per nine since the start of 2017.
It’s not a terribly exciting profile, but it’s one with value. Nova is still working in the 93 to 94 mph range with his pair of fastballs, while his swinging-strike rate has sat above eight percent — right in line with his career average. There’s good reason to anticipate that he’ll mostly be the same pitcher in 2019.
For the Chicago organization, adding Nova will help bolster a staff that has bid adieu to veteran James Shields. The club could certainly stand to add more arms, though it’ll also continue to decade at least two or three spots to its preexisting rotation options. Previously, the South Siders added veteran reliever Alex Colome to anchor the bullpen.
Interesting as it will be to see what else the White Sox do the rest of the way, the Pirates are now a potentially intriguing wild card on the market. Having dealt for Chris Archer and Keone Kela over the summer, the Bucs certainly seem positioned to add more pieces. After today’s trade, they’ll have more free payroll space to work with than they did at the outset of the offseason, even after having already signed Jung Ho Kang and Lonnie Chisenhall. Of course, moving Nova also leaves the Pittsburgh rotation with one less reliable arm. The organization could fill the opening from within (with Nick Kingham and eventually top prospect Mitch Keller) and/or pursue cheaper depth pieces via free agency.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Minor MLB Transactions: 12/10/18
Rounding up the latest minor league deals….
- The Mariners have signed catcher Jose Lobaton to a minor league deal, as per the Mariners Minors Twitter feed. Lobaton will earn $1MM if he makes Seattle’s big league roster, MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo adds, and the catcher will invited to the team’s Major League spring camp. Lobaton amassed 57 PA over 22 games with the Mets last season, his lowest total in either category since 2011. The 34-year-old veteran will head into camp to compete with David Freitas for the backup job behind newly-acquired Omar Narvaez.
- The White Sox have signed infielder Ryan Goins to a minor league contract, MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo tweets. The deal contains an invitation to Chicago’s big league Spring Training camp, and Goins will earn at least $975K in guaranteed money if he reaches the majors. Goins has never hit much over six years with the Blue Jays and Royals, though he has flashed an excellent shortstop glove in the past and offers depth at short, second base, and third base.
- The Reds have re-signed outfielder/first baseman Jordan Patterson and catcher Juan Graterol to minor league deals, and also inked shortstop Christian Colon to a minors pact, the Cincinnati Enquirer’s Bobby Nightengale reports (Twitter link). Patterson and Graterol are back with the organization after being non-tendered last week. Colon was the fourth overall pick of the 2010 draft but hasn’t turned that potential into Major League production, with just a .252/.315/.315 slash line over 386 PA with the Royals and Marlins from 2014-17, though he did earn a World Series ring for his postseason role with the 2015 Royals. He spent 2018 in the Braves and Mets organizations at the Triple-A level, and Colon does have a decent career slash line (.289/.358/.397) over 1833 career Triple-A plate appearances.
Astros Notes: Kikuchi, Abreu, Goldschmidt
Here’s the latest from Houston…
- It doesn’t appear as if the Astros will make a push for Japanese left-hander Yusei Kikuchi, The Athletic’s Jake Kaplan reports (subscription required). Such teams as the Phillies, Yankees, Giants, Dodgers, Rangers, Mariners, and Padres have been linked to Kikuchi’s services, though there has been speculation that the teams on the west coast may have a bit of an advantage due to geography.
- Also from Kaplan’s piece, he details the Astros’ most notable needs heading into the Winter Meetings, namely another starting pitcher and another bat, preferably a left-handed hitter for lineup-balance purposes. (Though GM Jeff Luhnow has said of his hitter search, “We’re not going to be wed to it having to be a lefty or a righty or having it be a specific position.“) Listing a few speculative names who could be potential fits for the Astros, Kaplan opines that Robbie Ray, Michael Brantley, Jose Martinez, Daniel Murphy, or Nelson Cruz could all be possible trade or free agent targets.
- The Astros have been in touch with the White Sox about Jose Abreu, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports. Abreu has been on Houston’s radar before, including at last year’s trade deadline. Latest reports suggest that the Sox may not part with Abreu in the offseason (if at all) since they’d be selling low in the wake of a somewhat disappointing season for the first baseman. Abreu hit .265/.325/.473 with 22 homers over 553 PA for Chicago in 2018, a marked dropoff from the .883 OPS he posted over his first four Major League seasons.
- Speaking of first base targets, Fancred Sports’ Jon Heyman reports (Twitter link) that the Astros included pitching prospects Cionel Perez and J.B. Bukauskas in talks with the Diamondbacks about Paul Goldschmidt, before Arizona sent Goldschmidt to the Cardinals. MLB.com ranks Perez and Bukauskas 5th and 8th, respectively, in their list of the top 30 prospects in Houston’s farm system, though it could be argued that neither were in the Astros’ true upper tier of young arms. Forrest Whitley, for instance, is a consensus top-10 prospect in baseball, while MLB.com also had Josh James ahead of Perez and Bukauskas in their ranking. Bukauskas cracked the preseason top-100 prospect lists from MLB.com and Baseball America, though an injury-shortened 2018 season dimmed his ranking and recent reports suggested that the Astros may be using Bukauskas as a trade chip. Perez, a 22-year-old southpaw from Cuba, made his MLB debut last season, though between he and Bukauskas, they didn’t have the Major League readiness that St. Louis offered the D’Backs (namely Luke Weaver and Carson Kelly) for Goldschmidt. Still, the Astros’ apparent willingness to give up two controllable young arms for premium talent is an interesting hint about how far they’ll go to make a significant hitting upgrade.