The World Baseball Classic is returning this year, the first time since 2017. The quadrennial event was supposed to take place in 2021 but was scuttled by the pandemic, now returning after a six-year absence. Rosters for the tournament were announced today and those can be found at this link. Here is a breakdown of which players from each MLB team are set to take participate. Quick caveat that this list is fluid and might be changed as more information becomes available.
Without further ado…
Angels
- Glenn Albanese Jr.
- Jaime Barria
- Gustavo Campero
- Alan Carter
- Jhonathan Diaz
- Carlos Estevez
- David Fletcher
- Jake Kalish
- D’Shawn Knowles
- Shohei Ohtani
- Jose Quijada
- Luis Rengifo
- Gerardo Reyes
- Patrick Sandoval
- Mike Trout
- Gio Urshela
- Cesar Valdez
- Zack Weiss
- Aaron Whitefield
Astros
- Bryan Abreu
- Jose Altuve
- Ronel Blanco
- Luis Garcia
- Colton Gordon
- Cristian Javier
- Martin Maldonado
- Rafael Montero
- Hector Neris
- Jeremy Pena
- Ryan Pressly
- Andre Scrubb
- Kyle Tucker
- Jose Urquidy
- Derek West
Athletics
Blue Jays
- Jose Berrios
- Jiorgeny Casimiri
- Yimi Garcia
- Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
- Spencer Horwitz
- Alejandro Kirk
- Otto Lopez
- Damiano Palmegiani
Braves
Brewers
- Willy Adames
- Sal Frelick
- Alex Hall
- Matt Hardy
- Joel Payamps
- Rowdy Tellez
- Abraham Toro
- Luis Urias
- Michele Vassalotti
- Devin Williams
Cardinals
- Nolan Arenado
- Genesis Cabrera
- Tommy Edman
- Giovanny Gallegos
- Paul Goldschmidt
- Ivan Herrera
- Matt Koperniak
- Noah Mendlinger
- Oscar Mercado
- Miles Mikolas
- Lars Nootbaar
- Tyler O’Neill
- JoJo Romero
- Adam Wainwright
- Guillermo Zuniga
Cubs
- Javier Assad
- Owen Caissie
- Danis Correa
- Ben DeLuzio
- Roenis Elias
- Miles Mastrobuoni
- Matt Mervis
- B.J. Murray Jr.
- Vinny Nittoli
- Fabian Pertuz
- Liam Spence
- Seiya Suzuki
- Marcus Stroman
- Pedro Strop
- Nelson Velazquez
- Jared Young
Diamondbacks
- Dominic Fletcher
- Jakob Goldfarb
- Gunnar Groen
- Merrill Kelly
- Ketel Marte
- Eric Mendez
- Dominic Miroglio
- Emmanuel Rivera
- Jacob Steinmetz
- Mitchell Stumpo
- Alek Thomas
Dodgers
- Austin Barnes
- Mookie Betts
- Freddie Freeman
- Clayton Kershaw
- Adam Kolarek
- Miguel Rojas
- Will Smith
- Trayce Thompson
- Julio Urias
Giants
Guardians
- Enyel De Los Santos
- Dayan Frias
- Andres Gimenez
- Bo Naylor
- Richie Palacios
- Cal Quantrill
- Cade Smith
- Meibrys Viloria
- Josh Wolf
Marlins
Mariners
- Matt Brash
- Diego Castillo
- Matt Festa
- Harry Ford
- Teoscar Hernandez
- Milkar Perez
- Julio Rodriguez
- Eugenio Suarez
- Blake Townsend
Mets
- Pete Alonso
- Jonathan Arauz
- Edwin Diaz
- Eduardo Escobar
- Dominic Hamel
- Elieser Hernandez
- Francisco Lindor
- Jeff McNeil
- Omar Narvaez
- Cam Opp
- Adam Ottavino
- Jose Quintana
- Brooks Raley
- Claudio Scotti
Nationals
Orioles
Padres
- Xander Bogaerts
- Nabil Crismatt
- Nelson Cruz
- Jarryd Dale
- Yu Darvish
- Jose Espada
- Ruben Galindo
- Luis Garcia
- Ha-Seong Kim
- Manny Machado
- Nick Martinez
- Evan Mendoza
- Juan Soto
- Brett Sullivan
- Julio Teheran
Phillies
- Jose Alvarado
- Erubiel Armenta
- Malik Binns
- Jaydenn Estanista
- Vito Friscia
- Brian Marconi
- J.T. Realmuto
- Kyle Schwarber
- Noah Skirrow
- Gregory Soto
- Garrett Stubbs
- Ranger Suarez
- Trea Turner
- Taijuan Walker
- Rixon Wingrove
Pirates
- David Bednar
- Tsung-Che Cheng
- Roansy Contreras
- Alessandro Ercolani
- Santiago Florez
- Jarlin Garcia
- Antwone Kelly
- Josh Palacios
- Jeffrey Passantino
- Tahnaj Thomas
- Duane Underwood Jr.
- Chavez Young
- Rob Zastryzny
Rangers
Rays
- Jason Adam
- Jonathan Aranda
- Randy Arozarena
- Christian Bethancourt
- Trevor Brigden
- Wander Franco
- Andrew Gross
- Joe LaSorsa
- Francisco Mejia
- Isaac Paredes
- Harold Ramirez
- Graham Spraker
Red Sox
- Jorge Alfaro
- Richard Bleier
- Rafael Devers
- Jarren Duran
- Ian Gibaut
- Rio Gomez
- Norwith Gudino
- Enrique Hernandez
- Nick Pivetta
- Henry Ramos
- Alex Verdugo
- Masataka Yoshida
Reds
- Donovan Benoit
- Silvino Bracho
- Luis Cessa
- Fernando Cruz
- Alexis Diaz
- Arij Fransen
- Kyle Glogoski
- Tayron Guerrero
- Evan Kravetz
- Nicolo Pinazzi
- Reiver Sanmartin
- Vin Timpanelli
Rockies
- Daniel Bard
- Jake Bird
- Yonathan Daza
- Elias Diaz
- Kyle Freeland
- Justin Lawrence
- German Marquez
- Michael Petersen
- Alan Trejo
Royals
- Max Castillo
- Robbie Glendinning
- Carlos Hernandez
- Nicky Lopez
- MJ Melendez
- Vinnie Pasquantino
- Salvador Perez
- Brady Singer
- Bobby Witt Jr.
- Angel Zerpa
Tigers
- Javier Baez
- Miguel Cabrera
- Chavez Fernander
- Andy Ibanez
- Jack O’Loughlin
- Jacob Robson
- Eduardo Rodriguez
- Jonathan Schoop
- John Valente
Twins
- Jose De Leon
- Edouard Julien
- Jorge Lopez
- Pablo Lopez
- Carlos Luna
- Jose Miranda
- Jovani Moran
- Emilio Pagan
- Christian Vazquez
White Sox
- Tim Anderson
- Kendall Graveman
- Eloy Jimenez
- Lance Lynn
- Yoan Moncada
- Nicholas Padilla
- Luis Robert
- Jose Ruiz
Yankees
Not too thrilled with Nestor Cortes and Jonathan Loaisiga, both of whom were injured last year, starting this year with full-on competition instead of easing in with spring training games.
Not so worried about Cortez. His was a groin injury. Not something likely to reoccur.
Joe – Agreed, and the Yankees list of participants is quite light compared to other teams.
Would have been nice if the country was listed next to each player.
Also, when are these players expected to leave ST and when is the latest they are expected to return?
Gary Sanchez’s groin injury in 2018 recurred six days after he came off the IL with a groin strain:
https://www.nj.com/yankees/2019/04/why-yankees-gary-sanchez-was-put-on-injured-list-despite-feeling-good.html#:~:text=Makes%20sense%20especially%20considering%20Sanchez%E2%80%99s%202018%20season.%20He,small%20strain%20in%20there%2C%E2%80%9D%20manager%20Aaron%20Boone%20said.
Groin injuries are very likely to recur if not properly taken care of.
Weren’t Yanks limiting his innings last year?
Jesus Luzardo is listed with the Mariners’ players for some reason.
Wdym? He is posted under Marlins
He wasn’t before they fixed it.
Where did Eovaldi go? Also, as an Asian, I do find is screwed up that so many players on MLB teams (probably most of them) choose to play for another country. Rant all you want if you disagree, but you would think this would be at most 50/50. Yet, so many of these guys are risking injury playing for some other country. I know for sure people from other countries would be much more disappointed than Americans do if their players decided to play for another country.
This post is weird for so many reasons.
They’re playing for the countries of which they are citizens. Tim Anderson is an American citizen, so he’s playing for Team USA. Shohei Ohtani (an Asian by the way) is a Japanese citizen, so he’ll play for Team Japan. Get it?
That makes more sense now.
Not all players are citizens of the countries they will represent.
Eligibility is pretty loose. They just have to be eligible for citizenship or a passport, a parent born in the nation or citizenship, residency, or to have been born in the nation themselves even if they aren’t a citizen or resident.
Yes, that’s the difference between the WBC and the Olympics. The criteria for the WBC includes the ability to gain citizenship whereas the Olympics require actually having citizenship.
Eovaldi was left off Team USA’s roster for some reason.
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2023/02/09/rangers-martin-perez-jose-leclerc-named-to-wbc-rosters-nathan-eovaldi-left-off-team-usa
I’ve seen you comment about your race three times and each time you claimed to be a different race
Maybe he is Cablanasian
What? I have always said I am Asian. I mention it so people don’t call me a Naz jdjdj i.
“Asian” doesn’t really narrow it down.
Do you have actual links to comments to back up the claim I am constantly changing my race? This is likely some crazy troll named deGrom Texas Rangers trying to imitate me.
Not gonna go back and comb through articles from January because that’s weird and you know I’m right because you’re the one who made the comments. I, and I’m sure some other people on here, distinctly remember you claiming to be both Hispanic and Indian. It’s not hard to notice this stuff when your comments are the first thing we see when we finish reading the article
There was literally really no reason for you to state “as an Asian” in your comment. Nobody cares. Weird.
So people don’t call me rasist
Racist
I wasn’t aware that Asians can’t be racist…
It’s a liberal rule. You just have to play along with it.
You seem to be about 22 years old, asian boy.
23
Wow, good guess on my part. I guess it’s pretty obvious to all then.
I get what you’re saying, and understand. Part of me misses the days when a world-wide event (like the Olympics used to be) would have teams comprised of amateurs. I know people want to see the best in the world, and the talent level would be significantly different, but this is supposed to be a game. Watching millionaires out there just leaves a lot to be desired, in my most humble opinion.
I think MLB encourages this a bit. Makes some of the teams better.
The Fletcher brothers, who have an Italian mom and spent a decent amount of time there as kids, are head and shoulders above anyone else Team Italy could roll out there.
Same with some of the Asian-American guys playing for their parents or grandparents homeland.
While I doubt that significantly increases viewership in Italy, it makes the games more watchable for us.
It makes sense. I appreciate the genuine answers, as opposed to these personal insults from others. It makes more sense they would want to balance things. I still wouldn’t be happy if a guy gets injured while beating team USA, but that’s just me. I have noticed way more people who have come here feel stronger about their heritage than American tourists.
In international competitions regardless of sport, which team in said sport I have a particular rooting interest or whatever country I identify with, I will always applaud and respect any player for competing on whichever team they are eligible to play for and choose. There is virtually nothing personally at stake on these competitions (money, contractual bonuses or accrued service to reach escalating clauses in contracts or whatever), they’re just simply going out and playing the game out of national pride and honor. That said the Caribbean Series is far more interesting and entertaining to me than the WBC.
As someone who likes diversity, I like that players with links to otherwise underrepresented nations are willing to play for those teams. If you are trying to grow both the audience and talent pool, having some of the best talent as ambassadors for the sport is a good start.
are you more against playing and risking injury or a player playing for their birth country? just need clarity before posting.
Both, though most of these guys aren’t even playing for their “birth country.” Look at this link https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-club-list-of-world-baseball-classic-players?partnerID=mlbapp-android_article-share
As many have mentioned, the requirements are loose. I know for a fact that way less than 80% of these guys were born outside the US. I get the feeling that people want to spread the skill and represent their countries, but just look at maybe 10 of these guys and you will see it’s way overkill. I’d understand half those born outside the US doing that (most of them are US born to begin with); at the 80% of all participants or whatever it may be, it’s outlandish. I appreciate spreading interest internationally for my favorite sport. Deliberately telling them to find reasons to play for any country other than the US seems illogical to me. Doing control + F shows USA 30 times in that article, though I don’t care quite enough to count total participation.
People don’t have control over where they are born. Who cares if they are playing for a country that they have a strong connection to or feel is their true home?
Wild. When did the Mariners acquire Jesús Luzardo?
Must’ve been the same time the Red Sox picked up Ian Gibaut.
Looks like some of these players are off by one team alphabetically.
Would be nice to have the team each will be playing for, too.
Yankees players aren’t good enough to make the rosters.
Yankees think they’re more important than the world. Bunch of trumpers. Pitiful organization.
3 states I’d never live in:
1. California
2. New York
3. Illinois (used to live there)
IMO, being far left means you’re trying to find something to complain about at all times.
I honestly don’t know how anyone is extreme left or right. Both sides are worthless. Eliminating the 2 party system is the only solution.
Nobody cares about your political opinions.
Huh?
Just checking: you came here to complain about the amount of complaining the far left does? Alright, not gonna try figuring that out.
Or add a third party in the middle, neither left nor right. The party of Sanity.
Actually, I’ve been told my vote counts all my life – so clearly someone cares! 🙂
what does your political views, have to do with baseball?
Ok
“3 states I’d never live in:
1. California
2. New York
3. Illinois (used to live there)”
As a New York resident, I say, “Thank you.”
I’ve been praying for that for years.
We used to have anti trust laws here. I’d use them to split each one we have into two. One for the further extremes of the party and one for the moderates.
The vast majority elected would be in the middle two parties, but there would normally be a need for at least two to meet in the middle to get anything passed.
Being far anything means you complain all the time.
What does Trump have to do with this?
Trump has about as much to do with it as you declaring your Asian heritage up above.
Right. Aaron Judge isn’t good enough. Insightful observation.
USA! Let’s go Mullins! Hoping he can make an impact with such a stacked outfield group. I’ll never forgot Adam Jones robbing manny in 2017
*hat tip*
And then bro hug in between innings!
That was such a great play (at Petco!)
I saw that Ohtani is set to be japans closer while hitting ofc. I’m excited to see him relieve and hit 103+
I thought Roman Urias was playing for Mexico
Why not put the country next to the player?…Geez
Tim and his band of merry men are spread a little thin.
Ian Gibaut and Henry Ramos are both with the Reds, not the Red Sox btw
I think Darragh and others on the MLBTR staff were writing the names down as quickly as possible so mistakes are likely to happen. I would have liked to see the countries each player is playing for, but maybe that will come later.
Not until all trades are announced…
Rangers seem to be the team with the least leveraged with their players that are participating
Does that mean they are not allowing their players to participate, or that no country wants to be represented by their players? Or they paid their players so much, they don’t believe they owe their countries anything?
Fewer is better. Why risk them getting injured over some minor league level exhibition?
You mean like spring training games?
“Why risk them getting injured over some minor league level exhibition?”
Minor leaguers like Mike Trout, Sohei Ohtani, Ronald Acuña Jr., Rafael Devers, Kenley Jansen, Seiya Suzuki, Tim Anderson, Kendall Graveman, Lance Lynn, Luis Robert, Andrés Giménez, Miguel Cabrera, Jonathan Schoop, Jose Altuve, Cristian Javier, Rafael Montero, Jeremy Peña, Ryan Pressly, Kyle Tucker, Salvador Perez, Bobby Witt Jr., Austin Barnes, Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, Clayton Kershaw, Will Smith, Julio Urías, Sandy Alcantara, Johnny Cueto, Jean Segura, Willy Adames, Jorge López, Pablo López, Christian Vázquez, Pete Alonso, Edwin Díaz, Francisco Lindor, Jeff McNeil, Adam Ottavino, José Quintana, Nestor Cortes, Jonathan Loáisiga, Gleyber Torres, etc.
Jose Berrios. Rough year in 22. Bloated ERA, led league in hits given up and ER. Dead arm? Should he be doing this?
Angels camp will be empty. Every day will look like a b game.
Wonder if I can get an inning in right field when I’m out there?
No. Renfroe is playing RF and he’s not on the team. How about CF?
That’s right. I’ll be the late, late game sub ha ha.
Took a quick look at the linked article and saw several former or “retired” players planning to play including Yoenis Céspedes for the Dominican Republic! Also quite a few current MLB players are due to play for team I never would have imagined (Lars Nootbar will play for Japan??)
Yoenis Céspedes will play for Cuba, not Dominican Republic
His mom is from Japan.
Hrs actually the first Japanese WBC player to not actually be from Japan.
Theophile is not an Oriole.
jerseyjoe – Maybe Theo Epstein will soon be announced as the new Baltimore GM.
Or maybe Theo Epstein will someday hire Theophile as his assistant.
I’m kind of surprised Jose Abreu isn’t playing for Cuba.
Good call. Me too now that you mention it.
Unless there’s some back story.
For those asking which countries the players are playing for, here you go, courtesy of MLB.com:
https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-club-list-of-world-baseball-classic-players
If you took Devers off the Red Sox list you wouldn’t know if it was a minor league team or a major league team. The rest of the Red Sox belong in AAA with a few league average player exceptions It’s embarrassing how far the mighty have fallen. 1 all-star caliber player.
The WBC is nothing more than an opportunity for many wealthy players to get hurt. It proves nothing. It shows cultural differences that help people justify immature behavior by grown men. Lets cross our fingers no super stars get hurt and miss major time due to this farce.
Or we can enjoy baseball games after not seeing any for months
Jimmyz – We just saw a few teams in football play their starters in games that were meaningless like the WBC and they got hurt. If a player is making big bucks and their team is a contender it’s a big risk to play these showcase games.
For Tim, who seems poised to jump down my throat for my comment that he pretended to not understand, national rivalries as witnessed in multiple other sports (especially soccer) and the intensity rises due to the national pride of the players. Taking things up a notch increases the chances of injuries and ugly moments whether by fans or players. Why risk it?
You guys must be the type of fans that think basketball all-star games are fun to watch. I’m not a fan of exhibitions due to the risks and lack of rewards to offset the risks. If Devers tears a hamstring and misses a major portion of the season was it worth it?
Remember, this WBC event is all about countries, cultures and self aggrandizement. Baseball is secondary so shuffle the deck, have guys play with guys they don’t usually play with and extend spring training and the risks associated with extending Spring Training.
PulledaBloom – I understood about injuries, but I didn’t originally get the part about ” justify immature behavior”. I think what you are talking about is crazy celebrations where sometimes injuries can happen. I think there is a elevated chance of injury, but I am not sure to what level. If a player is at elevated risk his team usually keeps him off the team or the player just declines to play. There is some additional risk to the teams sure, but the teams get a benefit too. IT helps to grow the game. That passion that the players have a lot of fans will too.
Tim – We are now in an era where a 3B who can’t field makes over $30MM a year for a decade or more. His health went from being important to critical. The Latin leagues have been the lesser leagues for 100 years much like the Negro leagues. Not in talent, just in perception. Everyone understands that this WBC showcase is to help build a more equal perception by the public but it comes at great risk.
I think we are one Buster Posey getting run over at home plate type incident from ending this showcase. If teams did as you suggest then there would be very few big names/salaries in the showcase.but that’s not the case. Boston is a great example. They have Devers as their lone all-star level hitter and he’s playing. Kenley Jansen who probably should stay away is playing. Yoshida needs to play to see a few MLB pitchers before spring training but would be a huge loss for Boston if he gets hurt.
Also, these WBC games have guys with massive egos playing against players and countries they don’t like and if Manny Machado behaves like typical Manny he might hurt an opponent. This is not a simple exhibition. It’s a bit more like Apollo Creed vs Drago with respect to a select few match-ups between rival countries thinking this is more than just a showcase..
Cross your fingers nothing ugly happens, no critical player gets hurt and the teams put on a good show. I’m not sure what fan base is expected to expand from this showcase. Maybe, the Netherlands? Japan, China, most of the Latin American countries, the US Southeast Asia teams all have mature fan bases. They might prefer MLB baseball more after the showcase but I don’t really see why they would. This huge risk is so baseball can grab some young kids to follow baseball rather than a preferred sport like football or basketball in the US or soccer anywhere else in the world. Is that really going to happen? I doubt it.
To me, this is more about the ego of the commissioner and his desire to follow in Selig’s footsteps by redirecting his mistakes into self promoted showcases like this one. Selig ruined a generation of players, became the self proclaimed savior of baseball and got into the HOF. I think the WBC is Manfred’s attempt to follow in Selig’s footsteps. Growing the game internationally by have teams in well established baseball countries compete rather than taking it to under developed parts of the world that might actually increase the actual baseball fans in the world is a camouflaged and flawed approach. It’s politics at it’s best. Lots of hype, very little substance with respect to alleged goal and a victory declared immediately following the event with many spin doctors rationalizing how it will be a victory.
For me, it’s a high risk publicity stunt by Manfred and the MLB powers that be to build their resumes for the HOF. One key injury or incident will put things back into perspective.
PulledaBloom – “The Latin leagues have been the lesser leagues for 100 years much like the Negro leagues. Not in talent, just in perception. Everyone understands that this WBC showcase is to help build a more equal perception by the public “.
I see it as more a chance to see an all-star like game but with more passion. Things like Trout vs Ohtani or MLB superstar vs Rōki Sasaki, any micro successes from Czech Republic or China. Give something for each country’s people to feel at least interested. Maybe even excited about or proud of. I don’t see the WBC as a build up of the Latin leagues or NPB KBO and certainly not any European Leagues. The Latin teams are very different from each other in terms of talent. Panama is nothing like the DR. I don’t see very much about the Leagues they play in.
I think we are one Buster Posey getting run over at home plate type incident from ending this showcase.
Pete Rose ended a career at an All-Star game, so probably not. Just rule changes.
” If teams did as you suggest then there would be very few big names/salaries in the showcase.but that’s not the case.”
The teams have the right to keep them out if they feel it too risky. There ARE players that where pulled back by it’s team, such Severino, Luis Castillo, Freddy Peralta. I am sure others, but that is up to the team. There is also a number of players declining or cancelling from Carlos Correa to Max Stassi.
” I’m not sure what fan base is expected to expand from this showcase.”
Any and all especially teams like the Czech Republic, China, Italy, Great Britain. Even Germany, France, Brazil and Pakistan, who where knocked out in the preliminary rounds.
“is so baseball can grab some young kids to follow baseball rather than a preferred sport”: Yes even more so in say Pakistan or Czech Republic. There is a youtube video documenty about the Czech team. They were talked about on Czech TV. I could see some kid what is this baseball about. how do you play it?
“Is that really going to happen? I doubt it.”
I think to varying degrees, yes.
“Growing the game internationally by have teams in well-established baseball countries compete rather than taking it to underdeveloped parts of the world that might actually increase the actual baseball fans in the world is a camouflaged and flawed approach.”
I guess, camouflaged to you. There are other teams that did not make it this far from all over the world. There have been teams that have played in the WBC from every continent except Antartica.
” Lots of hype, very little substance with respect to alleged goal and a victory declared immediately following the event with many spin doctors rationalizing how it will be a victory.”
I think the up tick in hype in the US is mainly due to American players and fans that got exited from the last WBC. There has also been an increase in participation thru time.
” a victory declared immediately following the event with many spin doctors rationalizing how it will be a victory.”
I did not see every game. I don’t think they put as much control over the TV crew as you think.
“For me, it’s a high-risk publicity stunt by Manfred and the MLB powers that be to build their resumes for the HOF”.
This makes no sense to me. Manfred and the “MLB power to be”(Players??) are pushing this to get into the HOF.
One key injury or incident will put things back into perspective.
The increased injury risk can be real, but the teams can decline to let any player at elevated risk play. The teams also get the added benefit of getting revenue for games. Some must go to promote the game, but I believe they draw good and are well watched in many countries with limited payroll money is coming in.
The thing is you have your ideas I have mine. We have a lot of common ground though and all and all it has been enjoyable to chat. I hope you got your thoughts out and good luck to your favorite team (Redsox?).
“Remember, this WBC event is all about countries, cultures and self aggrandizement.”
I’m glad the Yankees have prohibited Severino from playing, since his injury history warrants it, and I’m not comfortable with Cortes pitching after a late-season groin injury last year.
But this WBC event is about promoting baseball globally.
Baseball is a business, and they want to make an already highly profitable sport even more profitable. At a minimum, if the level of play in other countries improves by drawing from a larger pool of interested athletes, it’ll give the U.S. league a larger pool of international players they can draft. I suspect that their larger goal is to make MLB into something like FIFA eventually.
Tim – Good exchange. We don’t need to agree. My anger at Selig and the role of the commissioner is probably greater than most since I have invested a lot of time proving that the impact of the change in the baseball accounted for the HR surge from 1995 to 2008 not steroids.
Self promotion seems to be a big part of seeking and performing the job of Commissioner. Manfred allowed criminals off the hook with the sign stealing catastrophe despite the clear precedent that had been set. The WBC seems to be the main event that Manfred is going to ride to gain fame as the commissioner. The Selig misdirect of “I saved baseball by removing steroids” after he condoned them as GM of the Brewers is far more hypocritical than Manfred pushing the WBC but in the end it’s for the same thing, a chance to make the HOF by exaggerating the impact of something he supported.
Each day I see Cora, Hinch and Beltran in a MLB uniform after what they did, I get sick to my stomach realizing how bad things have gotten due to politics in baseball. They deserved the baseball death penalty like the 1919 CWS and got a slap on the hand but Bonds and his generation are still paying for a misdirection by Selig. There is no justice in baseball. Seeing the WBC being promoted to support the current fad of world wide inclusion is nothing more than an opportunistic politician who rides the political waves with the greatest impact at the moment.
If you care whether kids in obscure countries that don’t know baseball because it’s not part of their culture get a chance to experience it that’s great. I simply worry about the cost to those who may suffer if a significant injury occurs whether by accident or by aggressive play. Remember, Boston lost Peddy thanks to Machado’s aggressive yet legal play in a meaningless regular season game.
The revenues from the games is a good business justification for playing but I’m sure it’s far more significant for non-USA teams. Think about the fact that the DR team will receive money yet if Devers gets hurt, it costs them nothing. Only the Red Sox and their fans pay for an injury to Devers.
PulledaBloom – I would like to comment on your posts.
“the impact of the change in the baseball accounted for the HR surge from 1995 to 2008 not steroids.”
I had not seen that, interesting.
“Manfred allowed criminals off the hook with the sign stealing catastrophe”
I can get behind that.
” a chance to make the HOF by exaggerating ” I don’t think there is any chance Bud Selig or Manfred have to make the HOF. I personally have a problem with Bud Selig. The way he handled the the the time when Kevin Millar signed a 3 year deal with the Chunichi Dragons of the NPB. The Redsox signed him and Millar says he can not go to Japan . The Redsox offer to give the Dragons some cash. They decline, but eventually they kind of just give up. (Do you really want this mess on your team?) Some have said when the Dragons gave up that got Millar and the Redsox off the hook. I say the redsox should have been penalized for tampering by Selig. The Marlins his former team did things to hide interest in Millar. .Selig did absolutely nothing. What does this say to the Dragons, NPB and Japanese in general. This is the kind of thing that makes Americans look bad. Of course Millar should have Honored the contract. I guess he couldn’t “cowboy up”.
“Bonds and his generation are still paying for a misdirection by Selig.”
The amount of attention given to Bonds and other steroid users does not change the fact that they cheated. is not lessened by how much they where affected if at all. If you doctor a ball or bat in a way that makes it worse for you and it is against the rules it is the same penalty.
” I simply worry about the cost to those who may suffer if a significant injury ”
The people who suffer the most risk have the power to refuse if they think the risk outweighs the reward.
“Think about the fact that the DR team will receive money yet if Devers gets hurt, it costs them nothing. Only the Red Sox and their fans pay for an injury to Devers”
Sure, but the Redsox and Devers gave the green to this. The national teams have little risk in general. They have cheap no risk players when compared to MLB teams. The next WBC if Devers stops hitting, he is simply replaced with another superstar at no cost to a national team. The Redsox on the other hand as you said, would be stuck with a monstrous contract.
Tim – Great story about Millar. I hadn’t heard that much about the incident.
Steroids and cheating are perfect examples of how topics get publicly misdirected by those who can gain most from it. I played college ball in the late 70s and on multiple occasions I sat next to a player taking steroids. I was not at a big time DIV I school yet they were prevalent. I can only imagine how the big time scholarship schools and players addressed steroids from 1975 to 1994. 20 years and no mention of too many home runs or cheating by using it. Why?
Because in 1991 the then commissioner Fay Vincent got concerned about Cocaine use in baseball. He made a proclamation about drugs in baseball banning all types of drugs. Among the drugs listed were Mike Schmidt’s favorite amphetamines, Doc Gooden’s favorite cocaine, Jose Canseco’s favorite steroids and many others. One key note about this proclamation is that many people refer to steroids as illegal in the 1990s after the 1991 proclamation by Vincent.
Vincent didn’t have the authority nor the buy in from the MLBPA to enforce his proclamation. It was more of a scare tactic but revisionist history tells fans that steroids were banned in 1991 by Vincent. NOT TRUE. The actual ban happened in 2004 when the use of steroids or the distribution of steroids was added to the CBA..
You probably remember the huge impact that the strike of 1994 had on baseball. What wasn’t so well publicized was the ousting of Fay Vincent by Bud Selig and his cohorts. Selig, a GM who condoned players using steroids wanted to move on and become commissioner so he lobbied several owners who didn’t like Vincent and got him replaced by Selig himself. This happened between the 1991 proclamation and the 1994 strike.
To help baseball rebound from the strike, Selig reintroduced a baseball that had mistakenly been used in 1987 when HRs jumped over 20% year to year. Once the league realized the new ball was a mistake they reverted back to the old source for the baseball and HRs dropped over 20% in 1988. It was common knowledge among MLB insiders that the juiced ball clearly impacted HRs so it was removed the following year. History shows it was the first time since 1871 that HRs/Game averaged over 1.0!
In 1994, with a strike looming and a new commissioner there was another 20% jump in HRs. The HRs/Game in 1993 was 0.888 and in 1994 it was 1.033. Beginning with Selig as commissioner the HRs/Game using his new baseball never fell below 1.0 from 1994 to 2009, long after the steroid era was supposedly over. Since steroids had existed since the 70s or possibly earlier and no prolific jump had occurred during those years, in fact, the 20 years leading up to the new Selig ball saw HRs/Game comparable to the dead ball of the 60s and early 40s.
Simple logic suggests if Steroid Use radically grew in the 1990s then the HRs/Game should have reflected that growth but that’s not what happened. The exact same oscillation from year to year that had occurred since 1871 occurred in the 1990s and 2000s. Steroids should have grown the number if there was a correlation between steroids and HRs but it didn’t because there was not a correlation..
So, if taking steroids is cheating in your mind is it because:
1 – It helped them hit more HRs? (data conclusively proves it didn’t)
2 – It was against the rules (the ban on steroids happened in 2004!! not 1991)
3 – It gave them more stamina or a temporary high? So did Schmidt’s speed, Gooden’s cocaine and chewing tobacco.
Would it be more accurate to state that taking steroids was attempted cheating? YES. It didn’t work but the juiced baseball covered up the facts. We have guys not in the HOF because Selig declared a “steroid” problem when he could have told Congress about the new juiced baseball but didn’t. The Selig scandal is the biggest lapse of integrity in the history of baseball.
In 1919 Commissioner Landis wanted to keep cheating out of baseball so he banned anyone who participated or had knowledge of the plan to cheat. The lifetime bans were a huge deterrent to cheating by changing the outcome of games until Houston jumped the 5 game cheating scandal of 1919 to an unknown number of outcomes that could have been as high as 90 games in 2017. There is no conclusive way to prove different outcomes in those 90 games BUT anyone who has ever played knows what an advantage it is to know when an off speed pitch is coming or a fastball.
The precedent wasn’t used like it should have been. The commissioner and MLBPA fell flat on their face by not convicting the guilty and embarrassed themselves with a one season ban for 3 people who planned the cheating. Should the 3 top guys have been punished severely? Absolutely. Should players have received 1/2 season bans like they do for breaking other rules? Absolutely.
Now put things into perspective. If a guy sees others taking steroids and sees the HRs rising due to a change by Selig that juiced the baseball, should those guys that mistakenly tried to gain an advantage be punished more than the 3 guys who built an elaborate plan for a team to know each pitch by the opposition in all home games during a season and post season?
As a former college student who might have participated in a few beer parties that were against the rules, I find it hard to believe that the guys standing at the keg are the ones being banned from the HOF and that guys that drank beer but had clean reputations are making the HOF with less talent and as if they did nothing wrong compared to the others who just happened to be at the keg.
Either ban the entire fraternity or simply have that fraternity make restitution to those that were hurt by the party. Banning them from the HOF for life or even just 20 years is absurd and a complete mockery that should embarrass HOF members, executives and the self righteous sports writers and commentators that claim like Palmeiro that they didn’t do it or never saw it being done. What a load of crap!!!
20 years earlier at non DIV I schools it was commonplace. Add to it that no HRS can be linked to steroids and you have a Salem Witch Hunt equivalent created by Selig and perpetuated by modern day writers, reporters and MLB executives that haven’t thrown Selig under the bus for lying or errors of omission that he is guilty of in front of Congress.
Any HOF without Bonds, Shoeless Joe, Rose or Clemens isn’t a real HOF. It’s a country club for baseball players.
Did you know that Selig got in the HOF in 2017? Yep, before Bonds and Clemens.
Did you know that a comparison of Barry Bonds and Hank Aaron’s home runs by year shows an extremely high correlation with the juice in the baseball. That’s why Bonds started slowly then took off with Selig’s juiced ball and Aaron started fast when the post WWII juiced ball was introduced and then faded after 1961’s peak level of juice? It’s not a question of steroids, it’s a question of which players played during the high juice eras.
The 1950s, 1990s and 2015 or later all saw juiced baseballs. When Aaron’s generation challenged the records of Ruth’s generation, who played with a ball that had half the juice of the 1950s baseballs, nobody complained like they did in the 1990s when Bonds passed the players from the previous generation..
Baby boomers wanting their heroes to maintain their records created the entire farce called the steroid era. The timing of the era is completely wrong since it started in the 1970s or earlier. The impact on HRs prior to Selig’s juiced ball never made anyone’s radar since steroids didn’t change HR totals. Sign stealing on the other hand was also an attempt to gain a big advantage and it worked very well. So how can anyone condemn the attempted cheaters from the steroid era and let the real cheaters off with a warning?
If the outcome of games being changed by an act of a player, coaches or both is no longer a reason for punishment I guess it makes sense that baseball aligned itself with gambling. The world of integrity in sports has taken an enormous downturn. Maybe not as big as the downturn caused by Bloom on the Red Sox organization but it’s at least similarly bad.
Will the next infraction be as politically acceptable as the sign stealing scandal? Will it impact anything close to the number of games impacted by Houston in 2017? Politics in baseball. It’s all about perception created by the media influencers not the reality of what happens.
PulledaBloom – A lot of interesting stuff. I have some more comments and questions about your post.
“Vincent didn’t have the authority nor the buy in from the MLBPA to enforce his proclamation”
I am not sure but doesn’t any group have that authority when and if those things on the list are illegal in that use by US law. You are probably right that he might have problems with enforcement, but to ban those I think would be a slam dunk. Aren’t they kind of defacto band anyway.
So, if taking steroids is cheating in your mind is it because:
1 – It helped them hit more HRs? (data conclusively proves it didn’t)
No, But I would not say that the data CONCLUSIVELY proves it didn’t increase HRs, .It just indicates that it is not the strongest factor. For instance if both factors increase HR totals the weaker factor could be lost the data.
“2 – It was against the rules (the ban on steroids happened in 2004!! not 1991)”
Yes, because the ban as I see it was at least when it was on the list . It was ruled to be banned. Then in 1991 it had enforcement, so it had more of a deterrent.
“3 – It gave them more stamina or a temporary high? So did Schmidt’s speed, Gooden’s cocaine and chewing tobacco.”
Yes, If it was on the list or inferred because it is already illegal. Tobacco I think doesn’t fit
“Would it be more accurate to state that taking steroids was attempted cheating? YES. ”
In my mind , yes and no. The main thing is that it is a rule violation and subject to the same penalties ,
“Sign stealing on the other hand was also an attempt to gain a big advantage and it worked very well. So how can anyone condemn the attempted cheaters from the steroid era and let the real cheaters off with a warning?”
They are both rule violations The Astro players were lucky for that outcome. People stealing signs in a legal way might be thought of as cheating but I have no problem with.. Like the time a catcher dropped a card with all the signs on it or when a pitcher sticks his tung out every fastball. There is no rule against it.
“Will the next infraction be as politically acceptable as the sign stealing scandal?”
I don’t see the sign stealing scandel as being politically correct at all,Carlos Correa and others get regularly booed. still. People seem to not want to forget even more so with the penalty or lack thereof.
Tim – I think the steroid laws are a bit unclear based on your comments. Drugs were illegal to distribute in 1991 including steroids but it was not against the law to take steroids in the privacy of your home or in public as long as you didn’t distribute them to others.
There was no clause in the CBA addressing the use of steroids. As I wrote, Vincent was against Cocaine since the 1980s were filled with cocaine suspensions. Cocaine was an illegal drug unlike steroids. Amphetamines and tabacco were used to get a stamina jolt but they like steroids were not against the law either.
So steroids
1 – Were NOT illegal to take, they were illegal to distribute
2 – They were NOT against the MLB rules according to the CBA
Next, HRs/Game/Year are recorded in Baseball Reference. If you trend the annual number you will find that from 1871 to 2022 there was one thing that was true about the fluctuations from year to year, they oscillated up and down due to the standard deviation of HRs from year to year. There were, however, clearly delineated plateaus that jumped the norm significantly and then returned to the pattern of behavior at a higher or lower level.
The events that create these plateau jumps are well documented. The 1920s was the live ball era. The ball literally changed and was recognized as having more juice. In direct correlation, the HRs jumped but maintained their oscillating pattern from year to year. The post WWII baseball was the single greatest jump in juice. It replaced the war time baseball and the pre=war baseball. The live ball that benefited the 1950s hitters suddenly disappeared right after Maris broke Ruth’s record. With the amount of hate that surrounded Maris’ push to beat the Babe it makes sense the MLB was worried about the fact that the ball was so juiced. They may have over-reacted with the ball introduced in the 60s since the numbers went down so drastically they chose to lower the mound. Did that help? Nope. Low HR totals kept happening until 1987 and the mistake ball. So as you can see by the history of the juice in the ball, this single element of the game played a huge role in when HR hitters flourished and when they fell off.
Your theory that steroid benefits may have been masked by the juice in the baseball is counter intuitive. The conclusive proof is the combination of growth and oscillation in the 1990s and 2000s. While taking steroids in the 70s and 80s players hit fewer home runs than they did in the 50s. In 1987, when the mistake ball got introduced, the HRs jumped to a new high that exceeded the high created by the ball used in 1961 (the previous peak). The next year it immediately dropped back by the full 20%.
So, using your logic a massive number of players began using steroids in 1987 and then went cold turkey in 1988 to 1993? Seriously? The steroids persisted from the 1970s unnoticed and suddenly when the ball changes the HRs jump and it’s got to be partially because of steroids? Every factor that impacts home runs has contributed to the 120 year oscillation in HRs. New smaller fields, new hitting concepts, more pitchers using sticky substances to add velocity and yes steroids. But because there is no upward growth directly correlated to the time frame when steroids were used or prolifically used as some suggest, how can you explain no change in the HR pattern?
It was the make-up of the baseball in the 1920s, it was the baseball post WWII, it was the baseball in 1987 and then again from 1994 to 2009 and then it was the baseball in 2015 until now that has created the surges in Hrs. It was an unfortunate coincidence that steroids became the scapegoat of a generation who didn’t want their heroes surpassed by modern day players. The same hate happened in 1961 for Maris. People knew he had to be cheating somehow but nobody had the opportunity to point to something specific like steroids to justify why Maris hit so many in 1961. In the end, it was simple. The ball was more juiced than previous years.
Sounds like we strongly agree about the sign stealing. But let me remind you one more time. Steroids were made illegal in baseball in 2004. The fact that other sports considered them against the rules is irrelevant. They were illegal to distribute in 1991 not take. You could be arrested for taking cocaine and many other drugs but not steroids. Unless of course you were selling steroids then you could get arrested.
Mark McGwire took steroids in college and when he became a pro in 1987. It was within the rules. He wanted to get bigger and stronger faster and steroids sped up the rate of growth. It was the harmful effects that caused Fay Vincent to warn against their use but as commissioner, he needed the approval of both the owners and MLBPA to enact a ban on any substances!!
That never happened!!!!
Illegal substances like cocaine were in the CBA but steroids, amphetamines and tobacco were not.
As a player who saw plenty of other players take them at a risk to their health, I can not condone taking them but I also see no evidence of cheating by taking them prior to 2004. I also see no evidence of any home runs by Bonds being correlated to steroids late in his career since the ball jumped in juice in 1995 and his big HR years happened when the ball was most juiced. He had 3 MVPs by the time the ball got juiced in 1995. To ban him from the HOF is a travesty. Especially in light of guy like RIcky Henderson getting into the HOF and steroids helping runners more than hand eye coordination events like hitting.
The HOF has chosen to ignore the facts about the baseball’s impact on HRs in the 1990s to save egg on their face for not validating HR growth directly attributed to steroids. Their study was a theoretical how much farther will the ball travel if a player has steroid produced strength versus non steroid produced strength. Just stating the premise makes it sound laughable. I believe they supported some silly hypothesis that steroids caused you to hit the ball 7 feet farther therefore all home runs that cleared the fences by less than that amount were steroid home runs. hahahaha the scientists behind that study should have been in marketing execs instead. No facts just modern metric contrived theoretical numbers. My data is all fact based.
Actual stats on HRS/GAME/YEAR for 140 years.
The data chart shows a standard oscillation through each decade with plateaus that align with changes to the baseball. Any factor that is cumulative in nature like a growing steroids problem, a growth in not white players, a growth in small ball parks, launch angle, exit velocity, etc. all contribute to HRs but because they don’t impact the pattern of HRs when they occurred, there is no justification for suggesting they changed the course of HR history. Only the baseball produces the significant jumps that explain the growth in HRs over time.
I keep looking for evidence to the contraty but after 2o years I haven’t found any.
PulledaBloom -“Drugs were illegal to distribute in 1991 including steroids but it was not against the law to take steroids in the privacy of your home or in public as long as you didn’t distribute them to others.”
I think you needed a prescription for those steroids. I think the absence of one makes it illegal.
“They were NOT against the MLB rules according to the CBA”.
The fact that they were illegal in some way, I think it might be considered implied.
“So, using your logic a massive number of players began using steroids in 1987 and then went cold turkey in 1988 to 1993? Seriously? The steroids persisted from the 1970s unnoticed and suddenly when the ball changes the HRs jump and it’s got to be partially because of steroids? Every factor that impacts home runs has contributed to the 120 year oscillation in HRs. New smaller fields, new hitting concepts, more pitchers using sticky substances to add velocity and yes steroids. But because there is no upward growth directly correlated to the time frame when steroids were used or prolifically used as some suggest, how can you explain no change in the HR pattern?”
Let’s say Steroids increases HRs by 5 % and a juiced ball by 15-20%. when you add or subtract the juiced ball it would be harder to see the lower patterns. There are probably other things that would make it increase or decrease, such as new pitches, usage of pitches , changes to the strike zone launch angle, changes in wood. Maybe some were soaking bats in resin. or something to make it harder. The only way I can think of to have a really good Idea is to have experiments where you have a number of groups of teams play as a control group and then the same teams and players play another season on steroids. Having said that I think you have enough evidence to warrant investigation.
PulledaBloom – One more thing, I think giving quantitative properties to the effects of steroids can be problematic. There is some indirect evidence that steroids would help performance. Steroids in this case promote the growth of muscle and help in recovery times. So, to say there is no benefit would be unlikely. This is not to say there are not other things that would benefit a player, like 8 hours sleep and good diet. or even trips to Linedrive.
PulledaBloom – first, I would like to echo jimmyz comments. secondly. you wrote “It shows cultural differences that help people justify immature behavior by grown men.” Can you explain what you are talking about, bcause I really have no idea what you are talking about?
Hey mlbtr, it would also be cool if you added what country team each player was on. This is a half empty list.
If there’s a Dutch team does each player have to pay to be on it?
Yeah but they go Dutch
Thanks for the laugh.
7 of the Astros 13 pitchers are on rosters after a deep playoff run.
This scares me.
For those asking who is playing for what team, this is from MLB.com:
https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-club-list-of-world-baseball-classic-players?partnerID=mlbapp-android_article-share
Why is Rodney Theophile shown under the Oriole but listed as a Washington minor league player?
I’m against professionals playing in international exhibitions because they are under contract to represent a team. I know it’s a different sport but I think back to Paul George back in 2012 practicing with team USA basketball and breaking his leg. He ended up missing the next season with the Pacers and having severe complications where they were close to amputating. He rebounded to be still an all-star but he was on superstar trajectory before getting hurt. Since contracts are guaranteed if you get hurt the team is paying for your bad choices both financially and on the field.
kingbum -In respose to ” I’m against professionals playing in international exhibitions because they are under contract to represent a team.””Since contracts are guaranteed if you get hurt the team is paying for your bad choices both financially and on the field.”
Teams and players have the right to veto, If a team feels they are taking on more responsibility risk than they are convertible with.
Convertibles certainly are risky
Bill M – You are correct. That is because they won’t be covered.
Dominic Hamel is promising. Wild HR fluctuations and some of his success is age relative to his league, but he’s got real promise. 12k per 9 across all levels, and 0 HR given up in 55 ip in A+ is suggestive. The Mets might have a decent starter ready by 2026.
(Later: whoa, he’s the Mets #12 prospect. I guess being on a team with little in the way of pitching prospects and Billy Eppler in the GM seat, sadly, will pump up your promise. The Mets highest ranked pitching prospect above A ball is at #19—Eric Orze, with a 40 FV acc to MLB Pipeline’s overblown evaluations. He’s probably a 35, making him at best your #7 reliever. That leaves no one in the entire organization other than Peterson and Megill likely to get to MLB before 2026, at the earliest, except for the depth’s depths’ depth—someone like #25 prospect Zach Greene who’s even money to put up an ERA above 5.00.
Good thing Cohen’s rich.
>Jonathan Loaisiga
Ah, okay. Luckily, he’s not injury prone at all.